MASSACRE's KAM LEE: Death Metal Innovator And Villain

By David E. Gehlke

MASSACRE will release its fifth studio album, "Necrolution" in early November. Now under the direction of vocalist Kam Lee, the long-running Floridian outfit has decided to go back to basics for a largely enjoyable, no-frills excursion into the bowels of vintage death metal. The long player comes on the heels of a deluge of singles, EPs and a current run of tour dates celebrating "From Beyond", the band's first studio album that was released in 1991. Thus, after years of lineup changes and in-fighting, Lee appears to have MASSACRE headed in the right direction.

Lee, though, is one of death metal's biggest lightning rods for the aforementioned lineup changes and his willingness to speak his mind on a variety of topics, the most notable being his involvement with Chuck Schuldiner in MANTAS and the very early days of DEATH. There is little denying Lee's importance here: He was one of the first to introduce deep, growled vocals into extreme metal. Yet, he remains on the outside looking in, unable to penetrate the good graces of the wider death metal scene. However, in talking with BLABBERMOUTH.NET, being the odd man out is the exact place Lee wants to be.

Blabbermouth: You referenced that part of the motivation behind doing an album like "Necrolution" was to "de-evolve" the style of death metal. Can you elaborate on that?

Kam: "I think modern or contemporary death metal is beginning to get very cookie-cutter. It's starting to sound a lot the same. You can put on three or four new bands nowadays and I can't tell you the difference. There's a similarity in the sound, which is bound to happen. But back when I started, back in the '80s, going back to '84 and especially during the heyday, which I was thinking of '86 to '93, there were a lot of death metal bands around the world, but everyone had their own unique sound. It wasn't to the point where everyone was sounding the same. You had specifics. There's a specific Tampa or Florida death metal sound as opposed to the specific Swedish or the specific Finnish or Norwegian sound. Everyone had a little bit of a difference. Even Dutch bands like THANATOS. You could hear the band and go, 'That band sounds different.' Like, THANATOS doesn't sound like OBITUARY. OBITUARY doesn't sound like CANNIBAL CORPSE. Everyone had this unique sound and style. Now, it's gotten to where you can point out three or four bands in a row and I couldn't tell you who was who. It's cool stuff — don't get me wrong — but it's gotten to the point where it's cookie-cutter and very conventional sounding. I was like, 'That's not the era I come from. I'm old. I really miss the demo days. I miss the days when I was tape trading.' That was the cool thing about tape trading — you got stuff from all over. You'd go, 'This is really cool to hear unique styles.' I wanted to gravitate toward that. I wanted to go back to that early aesthetic and encapsulate that era between '86 and '93."

Blabbermouth: You have a unique lineup situation in having the studio band with Rogga (Johansson, guitar),Jonny (Pettersson, guitar),Mike (Borders, bass) and Jon (Rudin, drums),then you have a separate live band. Did you give the studio band this directive?

Kam: "Actually, we had a talk after we did 'Resurgence'. I've been working with Rogga for years. Right after we got done with 'Resurgence', they gave me another album. I listened to it and I was really critical and said, 'Look, guys, this is good stuff. Honestly, it's B-side stuff. This sounds too similar to 'Resurgence' and it's not as good.' I said, 'Let's take the best songs. Break it down and take the best riffs.' A lot of that got Frankenstein'd. We took pieces from here and there and that became 'Tri-pocalypse'. I gave it to Jonny and said, 'Let's make it more.' We got a theme out of it with the 'Tri-pocalypse' EP. 'Let's do this John Carpenter thing.' When it came to writing 'Necrolution', I said to Jonny and Rogga, 'Let's go back to the '80s and write from that mindset.' Both of them answered the same thing at the same time, 'That's really easy. That's the stuff we listen to.' [Laughs] I was like, 'Okay. That's what we write in. We need to write from the stuff you grew up on and the stuff you like from back then.' Then, it started evolving. It was funny because using the word 'evolution' was how we came up with 'Necrolution'. We knew we were evolving, but we were devolving. I was like, 'What kind of word can I come up with?' We had all kinds of album titles. It was the artist, Timbul [Cahyono], when I started describing to him what I wanted for the art. He was the one who said, 'Oh, you want a 'Necrolution'.' I said, 'Dude, that's a cool word. We're going to use it.' It ended up being the title."

Blabbermouth: Speaking of which, MASSACRE now releases a lot of stuff. What's the mindset behind that? Are you doing it because that's what the market dictates?

Kam: "It's a little bit of that. I had a conversation with my lawyer a couple of years ago. My lawyer does a lot of metal, but he's also an entertainment lawyer and has a lot of rap bands. We were talking and he said, 'I'd like to see a metal band do what the rappers do and release singles.' It stuck with me. I thought, 'You know what? Why not? There's no rules.' I think the metal scene got to this point where it was sticking to these unwritten rules. Isn't metal supposed to be about breaking the rules? Going against the grain and everything that is normal? I started putting stuff out because that's what we did in the demo days. We just put stuff out — it didn't matter, like during the MANTAS and DEATH days. When I was with Chuck, we'd record it in the garage and put it out. We didn't care how it sounded. We just wanted to get it out there. I now have the same sensibility. Now, I can record really good recordings and release stuff in limited quantities that will become collector's items for people who like physical product. And it makes it easier for people who like digital. It keeps the band going and keeps fresh stuff coming out. We're not a band that puts out an album and waits another five or seven years to release another. I figured if we're working on music and writing music, why wait?"

Blabbermouth: Let's go back to the lineup. Will you keep having a live band and a studio band? Is it working for you?

Kam: "'Necrolution' is the swansong for the recording artists. Mike Borders had to step down because of health reasons. He stepped down before the recording. I talked to him, I said, 'Look. I don't want you just to leave. You definitely have to take care of your health. That's important. I tell you what, why don't you record one more album with us?' That's what we did. Then, with Rogga. Rogga was fine. He was like, 'You know. I don't want to keep doing more MASSACRE. I don't tour. I just like to write and put out my albums.' Jonny was very understanding. He knew from the beginning that this was a limited thing. The guys that are in my live band, Elden [Santos, drums] and Carlos [Gonzalez, guitar], especially because they've been there for three years. Tim [Wilson, bass] is the newest guy. They are working so well and are beginning to write material themselves. I said, 'This is a good time to transition and go from the recording lineup and have the live lineup step in and they will now be the lineup."

Blabbermouth: You've been playing a lot more shows of late and you have some coming up in November with PESSIMIST. What's it been like getting back out there on a more regular basis?

Kam: "It's been fun. This year, 2024, we've been doing the 33rd anniversary of 'From Beyond'. The reason why it's the 33rd year is because the 30th year was three years ago and we were in the middle of the pandemic. We were like, 'Fuck. We can't do the 30th anniversary.' We went out a couple of times after it and did shows. People kept asking. I said, 'Well, we're past 30 years.' A friend of mine said, 'Fuck it. Just do 33 years.' We went out last year for the anniversary. For the majority of the shows, we played 'From Beyond' all the way through. However, that's going to end after this West Coast tour. The last time we'll do that is the L.A. show."

Blabbermouth: So, no more "From Beyond" shows, then?

Kam: "I asked on our social media: 'Out of these four 'From Beyond' songs, which one would you prefer?' The fans are the ones who are important. They're the ones who you want to appease. It was 'Fans choice: Out of four songs, pick two. And we'll incorporate those into the set.' Who knows? We may do three. That's what I like to do."

Blabbermouth: Let me guess: Everyone is choosing "Corpsegrinder".

Kam: "Actually, no. [Laughs] 'Corpsegrinder' is not what they're choosing. People are choosing 'Chamber Of Ages'. People love that one. 'Dawn Of Eternity' is always a good one because it's the opener and everyone knows that riff and 'Biohazard'. It's one of those songs people gravitate toward."

Blabbermouth: Do you feel differently about "From Beyond" now? It seems like its backstory about how long it took MASSACRE to get around to doing a full-length sometimes overtakes the songs.

Kam: "If I reflect back on the album itself, I still have reservations about it. I felt the album was rushed. I know it's hard for me to say because, as a person who was a part of the music, it's different from a fan's perspective. When I listen to it, I hear every mistake. I hear all the off-meter stuff and mistakes. As far as the material goes, I always felt the material was strong, especially the old-school stuff. It kind of has more of a D-beat punk feel to it. It has almost an early SLAYER vibe. It was our own thing. It all grouped together. Then, unfortunately, because of internal fighting or whatever you want to say because I had to deal with several narcissists in the band, the band never stayed solid until I came back and I said, 'You know what? I'm going to take control. I'm going to be in the captain's seat.' Every time everyone sailed this ship, it fucking sunk. I've been doing it ever since 2018 and it's been working."

Blabbermouth: Do you think MASSACRE's lineup narrative overshadows the songs?

Kam: "Definitely. You have to look at who those guys are attached to. I'm not going to shy away from it. This is Blabbermouth. Blabbermouth loves to hate me. It's [former DEATH and MASSACRE members] Rick Rozz and Terry Butler. They're almost god stature because they played with the great, mighty Chuck Schuldiner. Everyone forgets that I did too, but I didn't play on an album. Demos are different. They don't count demos because only hardcore people listen to demos. The rest of the masses know 'Leprosy' and 'Spiritual Healing'. They know those guys from those albums. They are god status because Chuck has been elevated to god status, so they're demi-god status. I read the comments: 'It's not MASSACRE without Rick Rozz.' I'm like, 'He replaced Allen West!' Allen West was the original guitar player. That's what is so stupid. The people who say stuff are not knowledgeable about the history of the band. They say things because it's Rick Rozz and Terry Butler. We have to worship these guys because they were next to fucking Chuck. That's what it's all about.

"Yes, I feel the lineup when it comes to those guys overshadows what it is now. MASSACRE is a different band than it was 40 years ago. It was a different band from when they were in it. I walked out when Rick Rozz tried to turn it into a TYPE O NEGATIVE and PANTERA joke band. And 'Promise' still came out two years later. I quit. Two years later, 'Promise' came out. Then those guys did their version of MASSACRE. I wasn't involved and it failed. And now they're playing in 'Let's rip off Chuck's grave.' [referring to LEFT TO DIE]"

Blabbermouth: Let's just say "Promise" is an "interesting" record.

Kam: "I hate it. It's MASSACRE's 'Cold Lake' [referring to CELTIC FROST's much-derided 1988 hair metal-inspired studio album]."

Blabbermouth: If we are talking about the early death metal diehards from the '80s, you are widely credited with being one of the first to do the "death growl." Chuck was not initially growling; he was shrieking. Do you feel that's what you're always up against?

Kam: "I'm definitely up against that, especially on the first MANTAS stuff, that's me on the vocals. I was doing more of the shrieking vocals at the beginning. A good person with a good ear can tell the difference between Chuck and me. I don't want it to be a competition with a dead guy. Chuck's been dead for over 20 years. I don't want to stay in competition with someone who is dead. He has his own status; he has his own fanbase. I'm not looking to win over DEATH fans. That's not what I'm looking to do. MASSACRE is its own unique band. It doesn't have to be a connection to DEATH, even though that's what all the record companies wanted to sell it as. That's what Earache did: 'Ex-DEATH members.' I was like, 'Okay. That's what you're using as a marketing ploy? I get it.' As a businessman, I understand that. I'm not in competition with Chuck. I never was. That's why I changed my vocal style.

"I know I said this before, but I used the wrong wording: I said the word 'ripped off.' [Referring to comments he made in 2022 about Schuldiner.] Even though if someone said, 'Kam, you rip off Tom G. Warrior [HELLHAMMER / CELTIC FROST],' I'm not going to be upset. But everyone's triggered. Saying the word 'ripped off' triggered some people. They look for that excuse. Let me re-state this: Chuck was heavily influenced by Jeff Becerra [POSSESSED]."

Blabbermouth: Absolutely. POSSESSED was his favorite band back then.

Kam: "Yes. That's what I meant. There's no disrespect. Chuck was doing the best Jeff Becerra vocals he could. I was trying to do it a little bit more raw; I was coming off of Cronos [Conrad Lant] from VENOM. I was a huge PLASMATICS fan. A lot of people don't realize that I loved it when Wendy O. Williams screamed. I was trying to match those screams and I still do them today. What got me growing was the phonetics of Tom G. Warrior and HELLHAMMER, which Chuck hated. I loved it. It wasn't so much that it was really good music. It was just really raw. It was dark. I loved Tom G. Warrior's phonetic way of English when he couldn't speak English. It wasn't his native language. That's what stuck with me — his phonetics. That's what I tried to immolate. I came up with my own thing. For me, I thought about, 'What's the most primal thing I can think of?' I was raised around rottweilers and pit bulls. Some of the scariest things as a child was when my mom would go, 'Feed the dogs.' Here I am, a six-year-old kid, walking out with bowls of dog food between rottweilers and pit bulls. I don't know if you've been between dogs when they're hungry, but imagine that when you're six years old. The hair raises on your arms. It's the most harrowing thing to hear those dogs growling because those dogs could rip me in half. I thought, 'That's the sensibility I want to bring to vocals.'"

Blabbermouth: You've previously stated that you felt like you were the "villain" of the DEATH story. Do you still think that way?

Kam: "Of course I do. [One-time DEATH manager] Eric Greif was a good manager because he knew how to work it. He played it really well. I don't know what his issue was. He's dead now — I don't have a way to ask him. He always had an issue with me. I think his issue was that in order to make Chuck a good guy, Chuck needed a villain. Every hero has an equally good villain. You wouldn't have Batman without the Joker. You wouldn't have Superman without Lex Luther. I became the villain. The difference is that I didn't cry and whine about it. I'm a wolf and not a sheep. I was like, 'Fuck it. If that's what they want to call me, then I'll be the villain.' It's still funny. I read other articles and see other shit that's out there from Blabbermouth and MetalSucks. I laugh. Glen Benton [DEICIDE], he's like the old man screaming at clouds. He's the gatekeeper, yet people love that guy. He's been vilified. The one thing I never did was put a brand of an upside-down cross on my flesh. This guy can do that and people still adhere to him. He's been vilified even by the church, yet I'm vilified to a certain extent, like, 'This guy tells the truth. And we don't want the truth being told.'

"Honestly, if there's a certain person out there and wants to vilify me or believe in that or know the truth or give it a chance, they've already made up their mind. I'm trying to change their mind. Like I said, I don't need DEATH fans. MASSACRE has fans. I will still say it: I've been doing this since 1984. I'm not a rock star. I'm not a fucking hero or someone to be idolized. I'm a regular guy who likes to play music that is death metal and loves horror. That's all I am. That's all I ask. I don't want a big fanbase. I don't want to be rich and famous. I don't want to be a household name. I just am what I am. I sound like Popeye. [Laughs]"