EXODUS's GARY HOLT On Split With STEVE 'ZETRO' SOUZA: 'One Guy Wasn't Enjoying It Anymore'

In a new interview with CBS SF, EXODUS guitarist Gary Holt spoke about the recent departure of the band's longtime vocalist Steve "Zetro" Souza and the return of Zetro's predecessor, Rob Dukes. Asked if there was any thought of even considering a different singer with the band after parting ways with Zetro, Gary said: "You mean now? No. I don't like change, for one. I never intended to make any of these vocalist changes. Not Rob the first time, and not Steve [now]. But at 60 years old, all of us, we all demand to be happy and be surrounded by happiness. We did some amazing music with Steve back. Amazing. [EXODUS's latest LP] 'Persona Non Grata' is my second favorite album in our whole catalog. But we're moving forward."

He continued: "I didn't want to bring in a young guy. Yeah, we could have brought in some 30-year-old guy who's young and has abs and can still jump off drum risers. [Laughs] That sounds appealing, but I like familiarity. Rob keeps me laughing, and he's an amazing singer. And he's one of my best friends. So that was kind of a no-brainer. I mean, I don't know how much longer we could play this kind of ferocious stuff. Over the years, we've just gotten faster and the songs have gotten harder to play as the arthritis gets worse. So we're going to just keep going for it as long as we can."

After interviewer Dave Pehling noted that Holt wrote in his just-released memoir, "A Fabulous Disaster: From The Garage To Madison Square Garden, The Hard Way", that the EXODUS members were at the best place that they had been in their whole career, Gary said: "It's one of those things. And I've got nothing but love for him. It's not like the last time he left the band, when it was on really bad terms. At 60 years old, this job gets fucking hard. And if you don't like to travel, and no longer like to be out on the road and and you want to cut the touring way back and all that, we can no longer make a living at this. We literally would have to go get day jobs. That's pretty much what happened. One guy wasn't enjoying it anymore. And none of us enjoy being away from home all the time. It sucks. My happy place is being around my family. I can speak for all of us, Steve included. But while I can — this whole age thing — while I can still tour for six weeks and crush it and go out and play seven, eight, nine shows in a row, I'm going to do it. Until I can't, and then I'll slow down. But if we start slowing down now, eventually it's just going to come to a stop."

EXODUS played its first concert with Dukes in nearly 11 years on Saturday, April 5 at the Decibel Magazine Metal & Beer Fest: Philly at the Fillmore in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

Souza joined EXODUS in 1986 after previously fronting the band LEGACY (which later became TESTAMENT). He remained in the band until their hiatus in 1993, but rejoined them for two years from 2002 to 2004. Dukes had joined EXODUS in 2005 (following Souza's departure) and remained until 2014, when Souza rejoined.

Regarding how he ended up back in the EXODUS fold, Rob told Mark Strigl in February: "How it happened was Lee [Altus, EXODUS guitarist] and Gary [Holt, EXODUS guitarist] called me, and Tom [Hunting, EXODUS drummer] called me, and they all spoke to me individually to kind of see where I was at. And then they asked me, and I said, 'Sure.'

"I'm not gonna talk about why they did what they did [as far as parting ways with Zetro] — that's on them to talk about, 'cause I have no idea," he continued. "I mean, I kind of do, but it's not my place. So, I'll let them handle that end.

"I was as surprised as you, man," Dukes admitted. "I mean, when I got the call… Me and Gary didn't speak as much, but me and Tom talk all the time. Me and Lee constantly talk about hockey and give each other shit — I'm a Rangers fan; he's a Flyers fan — so we're always in contact, especially during hockey season. And then, like I said, man, it came out of nowhere for myself too. And I took a day and decided, 'Yeah, okay, I can make it work.' 'Cause I have to put my life on hold, the life I've been building for 10 years as a car builder and a welder. But I sat down with the people I work for and the people I work with and I explained the situation and they were all, like, 'Yeah, go do it, man. You only live once.' And I was, like, 'Yeah, cool. That's exactly how I was thinking about it.' So, it all worked out, man. And everybody's stoked and happy."

Dukes previously joined EXODUS in January 2005 and appeared on four of the band's studio albums — "Shovel Headed Kill Machine" (2005),"The Atrocity Exhibition... Exhibit A" (2007),"Let There Be Blood" (2008, a re-recording of EXODUS's classic 1985 LP, "Bonded By Blood") and "Exhibit B: The Human Condition" (2010).

During an appearance on a recent episode of the "Rock And Roll Geek Show" podcast, which is hosted by former EXODUS bassist Michael Butler, Holt opened up about Souza's departure, saying: " People ask [why we fired Zetro] — everybody wants to know because we've chosen not to tell anybody. All I ever tell people is, marriages don't often work. And just 'cause you saw a married couple out in public that seemed happy, you don't know what's going on at home. I don't know if the wife's throwing frying pans at his head or he's fucking drunk out of his ass, fucking screaming at him and slapping the kids. You don't know. Just 'cause they go out in public and they put on a happy face.

"We've got nothing but respect for Zetro, and we've got love [for him] and I'm honored to have made some great music [with him]. But I'm also 60 years old, and the five of us need to be on the same page. And now we are."

After Butler suggested that musicians sometimes have different personalities and "people can get on your nerves sometimes", Holt clarified: "It's not even a matter of [anything] like that because we all get on each other's nerves. It's just as you get older, this job, either you still love it or it becomes incredibly difficult… For me, [it's] fucking not [difficult] at all. And so, for whatever our reasons, four guys had a reason to do what we did."

Asked if he personally called Zetro to tell the singer he was fired, Gary responded: "I don't really wanna go into all that. [Laughs] There's no hate involved. It's just the fucking marriage didn't work. Sometimes you get along with your ex. Sometimes you don't hate your ex; you just can't be married to them anymore… Sometimes the wife still likes him and he's a good father, but God, what a fucking crappy husband. Or what a bad life. But she was good with the kids and she's a member of the PTA. Who fucking knows?

"What's funny is online people are coming up with their conspiracy theories [about why Zetro was fired]," he continued. "It's like Pizzagate. It's fucking crazy. Like that it had something to do with that he just got married. Like, 'Rob Dukes got married right when he got fired, and Zetro got married [before he got fired]. Hmm. Pattern?' Dude, I've got grandkids. Like I fucking have a problem with my singer being married. Fucking stupid. I had one guy, when it happened, he got on my Instagram and he broke down his timeline of how we treat singers. Well, the first thing he said was, 'Gary Holt's just all about the money.' And if you fucking think parting ways with your singer is a fucking path to financial security, you're fucking high. What the fuck's wrong with you? And then he broke down his whole timeline. And I politely corrected his timeline for him. I don't respond to fucking people — I ain't got time for — but the guy goes, 'Band hires Paul [Baloff]. Fires Paul.' True. Paul was fired. Paul's life was a mess. In hindsight, we later became just as big a mess as he ever was. And then he said, 'Band hires singer, Steve Souza.' And he goes, 'Band fires Steve Souza.' No, we broke up [after] 'Force Of Habit'. He goes, 'Band rehires Paul Baloff. Band fires Paul Baloff.' I'm, like, 'He fucking died. We didn't fire him. He died.' And then he said, 'Band hires Steve Souza. Band fires Steve Souza.' No, he quit… In his eyes, we fired the dead guy. And I was, like, 'Just fuck off,' you know?, I politely said, 'Hey, buddy, let me correct your timeline for you.' I didn't go, 'Fuck you, dude.' I just said, 'Let me fix your timeline.'

"People are dumb," Holt added. "And I don't like to be mean to people. I've done stupid shit myself. But people fucking create whatever theories they can come up with in their little brains."

Regarding why he and his EXODUS bandmates decided to bring Dukes back to the group, Gary said: "I'm 60 years old. The idea of getting an unfamiliar person in the band would not be an option… I think we all reached out when we became apparent. And sure, I could have found some 30-year-old dude who could still jump off a drum riser and has washboard abs and is not all fat like the rest of us. But I need someone who's close to my own age. I'm too old to have to like fucking educate some young kid on music that I like."

When EXODUS announced Souza's latest departure on January 15, the band wrote in a statement: "We thank Steve for his years fronting the band and all the killer music we made during that time. We wish him only the best in the future and much success with anything he does.

"And please help us welcome Rob Dukes back to EXODUS! We are beyond stoked to have Rob back ripping up the stage with us and he's looking forward to crushing everything like only he can.

"Next chapter begins, new record rolls along as planned and the beatings will continue."

Although EXODUS rarely gets mentioned alongside the so-called "Big Four" of 1980s thrash metal — METALLICA, MEGADETH, SLAYER and ANTHRAX — the aforementioned "Bonded By Blood" LP inspired the likes of TESTAMENT, DEATH ANGEL, VIO-LENCE and many others to launch their careers and is considered one of the most influential thrash metal albums of all time.