SEPULTURA's DERRICK GREEN Blasts 'Greedy' Venues For Taking 'Absurd Percentages' Of Bands' Merchandise Sales

In a new interview with Oran O'Beirne of Bloodstock TV, SEPULTURA frontman Derrick Green spoke about the challenges newer bands are facing in organizing tours in the post-pandemic world. He said (as transcribed by BLABBERMOUTH.NET): "It's extremely difficult — now more than ever. The industry itself is consistently trying to take as much as they can from the artists because of the whole pandemic, as far as clubs really being extremely greedy and trying to make their money back through the artists, which is completely ridiculous, as far as having absurd percentages that they're taking from your merch. Which doesn't make any sense to me at all, being an artist where you're creating the merch, you're carrying the merch, you're paying the tax on the merch, you're doing everything to make it relevant and to have it out there, and then somebody comes along and they're, like, 'Oh, I'm gonna take 30 percent.' 'I'm gonna take 20 percent of whatever it is that you're selling in our venue.' And I think this is absolutely absurd and outrageous, that they are pushing this on artists."

He continued: "A lot of people don't realize, that's where you make your money as an artist, is with your merchandise. It can sometimes save a tour, if you're not getting that in gigs, the proper payment. So I think this is something that's happened a lot more, where the percentages are going up, which is absolutely disgusting, I think, and super greedy from these clubs doing this, especially in the U.S. I find it's very disrespectful for certain places where they're doing check-ins, checking your bags as an artist as you're rolling into a venue. I mean, it's completely absurd, and it's pissing me off here, the fact that they're putting us on the level as almost treating us like criminals. The fact that we're putting on a show, creating a show that's paying everyone in the venue, I figure that we're all working together, but in the sense that these clubs are treating us like we're gonna do something to damage our own show is absurd. So these things have been popping in my mind from being on this tour that really drive me up the wall. And it's forced bands to do other alternatives of selling their merchandise — either pre-selling it or doing pop-up stores in places where they're not taking so much of a percentage of your merch and maybe just a flat fee just to rent the space out and then you can sell your merch there the day before the show. Also some alternatives that artists are gonna look for so that they're not being ripped off by these venues."

Green added: "I think a lot of artists need to speak out because… I think a lot of artists might be afraid to speak out from [a fear of] being banned or whatever from certain shows, but I think it's important if every artist spoke out about this and really talked about it and really tried to find a change in this because I think it's unfair in so many ways. It's just disgusting, the fact that a lot of these people in the industry are always trying to take away from the artists when the artists already have less. We're the ones that hadn't played for two years as well too, so we're coming back struggling and fighting and trying to pay a lot of debt and things like that. But we continue onward. The music is still very strong, and the scene, and I think it's just important that musicians and artists fight for their rights."

Derrick isn't the only metal musician who has spoken out about the practice of venues taking a cut of an artist's merchandise revenue. Earlier this month, FEAR FACTORY guitarist Dino Cazares told The Razor's Edge that promoters are taking "larger and larger" cuts from the bands than they used to. "Of course there's always been a percentage that you have to give to venues. That's just how it is," he said. "Merch percentage — we're talking about merch percentage. But, of course, it's getting higher and higher. So, unfortunately, the fans are the ones who have to pay for that, because once the merch percentages get higher that the venue takes, then you're gonna have to raise your prices on a t-shirt. That's just inevitable and that's unfortunate, [but] that's what happens."

When the interviewer pointed out to Dino that artists do not get a cut of any of the alcohol that is sold in the venues where they are performing, Cazares said: "It's not just the promoters and the club venues; it's also the ticket agencies. It's all a big thing. It's not one thing — it's all of it. And you're right — we do not get a percentage of the alcohol at all whatsoever. But I did hear that there was one artist that did that, and that was Axl Rose. Axl Rose was putting GUNS N' ROSES in stadiums — in soccer stadiums and baseball stadiums — selling out 40, 50 thousand people, but he was, like, 'If you want GUNS N' ROSES in your stadium, you're gonna have to give me a piece of the alcohol,' And I heard a rumor that he got a piece of that alcohol percentage, which is really good. Which probably evened out to what [the promoters] were getting from the merch percentage. But not a lot of artists in my genre have that kind of power, if at all."

Many venues require bands to pay them a percentage of their merchandise sales. Commonly that split is 20/80, meaning for every dollar a band makes selling a t-shirt, the venue gets 20 cents. It's an accepted industry standard that understandably riles touring bands, especially those acts for whom merch income is still crucial for ensuring that a tour is profitable.

"That's a typical thing that venues will do," DREAM THEATER guitarist John Petrucci recently told "THAT Rocks!", the weekly YouTube series hosted by Eddie Trunk, Jim Florentine and Don Jamieson. "I think that if you're in the position, you should try to negotiate that as much as you can. I mean, 30 percent, that's way too high. I think it's more typical [for it to be in] the 15-to-20 [range]. And I think also it might be different for soft goods and physical things, like records and stuff like that. So there might be a difference there as well. But it's all reasons to be on top of your shit and your business and have people representing you that know what they're doing, because a young band might not know that they can negotiate that. They just kind of [go], 'Oh, I guess it is what it is.' And I guess in some circumstances, if you have no leverage, then it is what it is. But you can look at that and be conscious of that. Because it sucks. 'Cause then you're in that position — well, what are you gonna [do]? [Are you] gonna jack up the price of your shirt? Then somebody is paying 50, 60 dollars for a t-shirt? That's ridiculous. And you feel like you're gouging your fans, and that's not cool."

DREAM THEATER keyboardist Jordan Rudess added: "And it's also sad, because a lot of these younger bands, they're working so hard to get out there and play, they finally show up at a venue and they stand a chance of making a little money maybe at the merch booth, and then you've got these venues — clubs, theaters, whatever — that wanna take money out of their pockets, basically. You see it all the time. It sucks."

In larger venues, it is often mandatory for a merchandise staff to be employed directly by the venue, meaning a percentage cut can be standard.

In recent months, some venues have said that they will do away with merch fees. Ineffable Live, which runs 10 venues, including the Golden State Theater in Monterey, California; the Fremont Theater in San Luis Obispo, California; and the Chicken Box in Nantucket, Massachusetts, got rid of their 20% merch fee in response to the testimony of Clyde Lawrence of the independent soul-pop band LAWRENCE, who spoke in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee this past January about the "lopsided deal mechanics in certain aspects of the live music industry." During his appearance at the hearing, Lawrence explained why venues taking a cut of merch sales is unfair, saying: Another pain point for artists is the significant loss of revenues due to promoter merchandise cuts. Typically, the promoter takes a sizable percentage (roughly 20%) of an artist's merch sales, and once we factor in our costs of creating and transporting the merch, it can be an even larger percentage (40%) of an artist's bottom line. The argument is that the venue is providing us the retail space for us to sell our merch. Sure. But we're providing all of the customers, and yet receive no cut from their many ancillary revenue streams. Live Nation getting around 20% of our gross merch sales while we get nothing on ticketing fees, bar tabs, coat checks and parking passes doesn’t make a lot of sense to me."

According to Billboard, Ineffable Music Group CEO Thomas Cussins said that on a good night, an independent touring band with a loyal fanbase can sell $5,000 to $10,000 in merchandise at a 500-capacity show. Eliminating the venue fee can save some groups $1,000 to $2,000 per night, he added.

"We are on the ground and hearing from artists every day," Cussins said. "We are seeing how much the costs of everything have gone up — from buses to hotels to flights. So even though the club business is a marginal business, any action we can take to help to insure a healthy, vibrant concert ecosystem is important. This industry only works if artists of all levels are able to afford to tour. When artists are able to tour sustainably and fans can afford to buy a t-shirt because the all-in ticket price is reasonable, everyone wins."

Ineffable head talent buyer Casey Smith added: "We've been able to make our live business work even with increased expenses by having a number of venues and being able to create routes for artists, offering them a number of shows in secondary and college markets between their big city plays. Since we've made it work for ourselves, we want it to work for the artists as well. This move is fully aligned with Ineffable's independent spirit, and in hearing the needs of independent artists, we believe it’s important to put them first."