JUHA RAIVIO Talks How SWALLOW THE SUN Is Ready To Take On Doom Metal 'Purists' With New Album 'Shining'

By David E. Gehlke

Undoubtedly one of the finest death/doom bands to emerge on the scene since the turn of the century, Finland's SWALLOW THE SUN have recently held up their end of the utterly depressing bargain by way of 2019's "When A Shadow Is Forced Into The Light" and 2021's "Moonflowers". The latter, in particular, may very well be the band's masterwork — an eight-song deep drop in the perilous psyche of founding member, guitarist and songwriter Juha Raivio. Yet for as strikingly haunting and morose "Moonflowers" is, it nearly pushed Raivio to the brink at a time when Covid was still forcing many to keep their distance and remain indoors.

The effects of "Moonflowers" led Raivio and SWALLOW THE SUN to seek a different approach with a non-metal, non-doom voice, BRING ME THE HORIZON producer Dan Lancaster. While Lancaster did not have direct input on Raivio's songs, his impact is profound: He has effectively modernized SWALLOW THE SUN's sound and taken them out of the friendly, comforting confines of death / doom and into unforeseen territory. How it will land is anyone's guess, but when BLABBERMOUTH.NET caught up with Raivio, he was more than pleased with the results.

Blabbermouth: Going into the writing of "Shining", was it simply a matter of not being interested in doing the type of doom heard on "Moonflowers"?

Juha: "The music I write just comes out suddenly. It is what it is. I love doom metal and death/doom. Who doesn't? Even the 'doom' label was put on us by our first record label. [Firebox]. They signed us for the first two albums. I just wrote music that I felt I needed to write. There's definitely a lot of doom. There's a lot of doom in this new album, too—a lot. Compared to 'Moonflowers', I don't plan anything. There was a voice in me after 'Moonflowers' because it was so physically and mentally hard to write and tour, and it started to get dangerous for me. There was something after the 'Moonflowers' tour ended: some voice told me, 'If there's ever going to be any new music…' As I said, I can't plan it; there was a voice, 'Maybe you should have a little bit of mercy on yourself with the next album, or you're going to fucking kill yourself.' Then the music came as it came out. The new album has a different kind of power. I wanted it to be hugely different from 'Moonflowers'. I hoped so that I wouldn't shoot my brain up into the ceiling. I don't know if you can ever be happy about music like this, but I'm happy for myself that it turned out the way it did."

Blabbermouth: It doesn't get any bleaker than "Woven Into Sorrow" or "Enemy" off "Moonflowers". Where can you go from there?

Juha: "I never try to top anything. I just write music that comes from a real and honest place. It's always perfect if you do that. That's why I write the music. I never listen to someone who says, 'You have to write the album on this date.' Nobody tells me what to do. That's the most important thing for me because I can make it real from my heart, and then it's always going to be perfect, even if it sounds like Dua Lipa, who I love. There's no problem if it comes from an honest place. If it's an R&B album, then it's perfect. I haven't done interviews for eight years. I've done only a few when I'm forced to say something. What I was forced to say about 'Moonflowers' was that I hate this album. I hate how it feels. I hate that I had to write this album. I was locked down during Covid in the middle of a forest. I love this place, but to be locked down destroyed everything. It pushed me back a lot and you can hear it a lot. That's why I said I hated that album, but at the same time, I love that album because of how it is and how honest it is. It's a schizophrenic situation."

Blabbermouth: Doing press again must be a hard process for you, considering the events of the last several years. (Raivio's girlfriend, Aleah Stanbridge, passed away in 2016.)

Juha: "Unfortunately, I will never overcome. That's life and death. We all have our tragedies in this life. We're all going to face these things, but not this early. That's the reason I wasn't doing interviews. That's why I'm back now. It's also why I didn't want to talk to strangers. I was afraid. I'm a Finnish man, so I don't talk in the first place. We just go to the forest. In that way, I wasn't ready or wanted to face questions because I didn't know what people would ask. Now that we have done the book ['Swallow The Sun: The Official Book'], which goes deep. It helped me come back. Everything is there. Most of it."

Blabbermouth: How did Dan Lancaster get involved with "Shining"?

Juha: "That was our management. When we started to talk about the producer of the album, which is quite a thing for us, Of course, we've worked with amazing producers like Jens Bogren, who is the best of the best. The management gave us some names and we were looking at some people. The only thing I said is, 'If we're going to work with a producer, the only thing I want, no matter who it is, is somebody who doesn't work with this kind of music.' Or, not metal at all, almost. He's done BRING ME THE HORIZON, but some people don't think they're metal—fucking purists. If the music is good, it's good. I'm old enough to know that. The only thing was that if we worked with somebody, the producer needed to be someone who hadn't done any of this kind of music. I'd much rather work with a totally different type of producer. It was also a new way to feel a new power in the music. Dan is a big part of how this album sounds and feels. He really went into the melodic side of the band. The band has always been super-melodic, but he really concentrated on that and brought that side up. He's an amazing guy, musician and producer."

Blabbermouth: Can you detail his level of involvement? Did he tinker with the songs? Or was it more of a performance kind of thing?

Juha: "He wasn't involved much with the writing of the songs. I'm quite strict with the music anyway. It has to come from that honest place. He didn't touch the music by much. Let's say it's 95 percent the same as the demos. It's all the other things. He's a British guy and an amazing singer. You can hear him singing a lot on the album with background harmonies and other kind of stuff. As he's a Brit, he brought a QUEEN kind of thing into the band, like big choruses and big harmonies. He really went into the melodic side of the band and pushed it up. I'm super-happy about that."

Blabbermouth: Did Dan have the biggest impact on Mikko [Kotamäki, vocals]? For the first time on a SWALLOW THE SUN record, there are predominantly clean vocals.

Juha: "Dan is such a professional. He goes a thousand miles an hour, like, 'Go, go go. Let's do this.' It felt like, 'Let's slow it down!' He's like, 'Let's go!' He wants to capture the moment. He said he didn't want to get stuck in anything and go forward and forward. It was a super-fast recording for Mikko. That was also because Dan has that thing in him that gets you so pumped up, even though we are gloomy Finnish bastards. He definitely kicked our asses a lot. That's also the thing I wanted with this new album. I wanted it to feel like somebody was punching me in the face sound-wise and music-wise. That's what I wanted to feel totally different than 'Moonflowers'. You're almost in this velvet grey with that album. You're almost in this safe space with melancholic songs. That sadness, it's quite comforting. But I've been working so deep into the darkness the last few years that I almost passed the point where the light was. The way things were going and the music…I needed to feel this. I'm so happy it came. I know I could easily write a funeral doom album. It didn't happen, so something changed. Maybe the next album will be totally different. I don't know."

Blabbermouth: It's not like you haven't taken the band to some different places before. "True North" has a total funeral doom album among the three you recorded and you did the "Plague Of Butterflies" EP in 2008.

Juha: "It's a hard thing for the true doom people for sure. There are two groups of people: True doom people and black metal people. All power to them, but they are the most vocal about 'It has to be exactly like this or it's crap.' I'm too old to care about those things. Different things are much more important for me. But back to the songwriting. It can take months before I pick up the guitar. I just let the music build up in me. It's on purpose. I feel like, 'Oh, I want to write something.' I live here in the forest, and I go out and the music is always in my head. When I go out into nature, the music just pours out. It's a cliché. It's always in the back of my mind. Constantly, I'm doing the music. Then there's a force, an actual force, that forces me to take the guitar. Then I know, 'Now it's going to happen.' It takes about three weeks or a month to make the album. Usually, I don't remember that time. I hope it's going to stay like that. It really comes from someplace that is the right place for me to write."

Blabbermouth: Do you have any neighbors where you live?

Juha: "I live in a small village. There are houses here and there, but there are maybe 15 people altogether. The middle age of people here is 80 or 85. In a way, I feel young. It's very isolated. I love it. Of course, I've been living here for 15 years in the middle of nowhere. There are lakes, forests, horses, cats and people around. It's a very isolated way of living. I love it. I'm so isolated; then suddenly, I'm in New York or L.A. or Tokyo. That's why Covid was so hard — I was locked in here. We all know being locked somewhere is not good. That's the worst thing you can do to someone is take away their freedom. I hope that if we've learned anything from this, it's that 'if you can't do the time, don't do the crime.'"

Blabbermouth: You say that, but it's hard to have confidence that people will learn from these mistakes.

Juha: "Humans are not very clever. We can't get along and we keep breaking each other's hearts. That's what the album title is about, 'Shining'. Juho [Räihä], our other guitar player, told me this thing, 'You can see the whole beauty of the universe shining through our eyes. It's there. That purity and beauty. But when there starts to be more than one person, different things start to happen.' You can see with the war. I hope our neighbors are around here—wherever they are—I hope I am treating them well. Even with them, it's hard to get along if you think about neighboring countries."

Blabbermouth: Did what's happening in Ukraine influence you at all? Or was it other things?

Juha: "'Shining' is all about how that beauty of the universe shines through our eyes. I sound like a fucking hippy. It's true when you think about a newborn baby, but that's what it is. Then you know what will happen in life. That's what life does to you. I've been trying to look into that with myself and understand what my actions, reactions and everything else I have done have been. When I look myself in the eye in the mirror, it's why I have become so miserable. It's not what I want to be or become. That's one thing this album is about. I also try to forgive myself and other people a little bit. I want to understand things. That's what this album is about. The album name should be 'Shining Dark', but it's even more cliché to put 'Dark' in there. We all know about these things. I don't like to look into the mirror, but sometimes you stop when brushing your teeth. I stop and have this long look and dig into myself and look into my soul. What you see is not super beautiful. It's not all bad, but it's important to do some self-searching but also to forgive yourself. That's one of the hardest things. At least for me."