JONAS RENKSE Takes KATATONIA Down The 'Least Expected Path' On 'Nightmares As Extensions Of The Waking State'

By David E. Gehlke

Swedish masters of dark progressive metal KATATONIA have long enjoyed the latitude to do as they please, which in this case, circa 2025, is continuing down the path started on 2020's "City Burials". Originally slated as a solo album for frontman Jonas Renkse, "City Burials" opened the door for KATATONIA to merge their brooding, depressive metal underbelly with a myriad of soundscapes. That evolution continued on 2023's "Sky Void Of Stars" and is hereby even more present on the band's latest, "Nightmares As Extensions Of The Waking State".

Like nearly every KATATONIA LP, "Nightmares" does not hit immediately or suddenly, yet that's usually been the point. Renkse, who has since assumed the lion's share of the songwriting load from recently departed co-founding guitarist Anders Nyström, has become more clever and intuitive in his compositions. "Nightmares" includes a handful of surprising, even unpredictable moments from the Swedes, along with a hefty dosage of pensive, churning riffage. While discussion of Nyström's tenure and subsequent split from KATATONIA was not on the agenda (Renkse, per his gentlemanly demeanor, would have assuredly deflected such questions),there was plenty to wade through with BLABBERMOUTH.NET when it came down to the new album and the band's recent lineup additions.

Blabbermouth: What's the first word that comes to mind with "Nightmares As Extensions Of The Waking State"? I'll give you mine: "Unpredictable."

Jonas: "I think 'introspective.' When I was listening back to it when it was all done, and I had some perspective, I thought I would naturally compare it to the last thing we did. I thought this album was more introspective than the previous album. That was my first sort of impression when the album was ready."

Blabbermouth: I said "unpredictable" because it was hard to figure out where you'd go with this album.

Jonas: "I take that as a compliment. [Laughs]"

Blabbermouth: How much do you owe this all to what you did on "City Burials" in 2020? Did it open the floodgates to keep trying new things?

Jonas: "I think so, yeah. I didn't think about it when we were doing that album. Looking back on it, it has certain qualities that make it a bit more mixed up than the albums before that. You know, maybe, subconsciously, it allowed me the opportunity to do something that's not super-expected all the time. It's not been a deliberate plan or something like that. It's more of a natural progression, and there is also the feeling that we don't have to prove anything. It goes where the music takes you, as cliche as that might sound. I think it's something like that."

Blabbermouth: Do you get bored easily with songwriting?

Jonas: "Not really. It's still super fun. It's one of the most rewarding things I can think of. Of course, I write music all the time and it gets a bit tedious to think about music every day of my life. It's also something that I've devoted myself to. It comes with the territory, I guess. I can think of so many things that I wouldn't want to do instead of music."

Blabbermouth: Let me re-rephrase that: Are you more conscious now of not repeating yourself?

Jonas: "A little bit. As I always say, we're comfortable with what we're doing musically. We're in a place we like to be. We don't change things just for the sake of changing. It has to be a natural movement. I guess it takes a little bit of time to step out of the 'box' or the framework we keep our songs and actually try something new. It's something that comes to me time and time again where I feel that it's, 'Wow, this awkward way to go is maybe the best way to go with this song.'"

Blabbermouth: This ties into "Wind Of No Change". Never before has KATATONIA used a choir and said "Hail Satan" in a song.

Jonas: "It was growing along the way as I wrote the song. When I started writing, the only thing I knew was that I wanted to make a song that had bass and drums in the beginning, with kind of a cocky riff. As the song proceeded to be written, I saw it take a different form from my initial sort of vision for it. I felt that the choir thing was one thing. When I came up with that, I felt it had some sort of biblical quality to it. [Laughs] Of course, it had to be twisted around to be a satanic kind of song. It had many layers when I wrote it, which is weird because it's kind of a simple and straightforward song. It took some time to find the right sort of vibe for it to be able to complete it."

Blabbermouth: Perhaps this is along the same lines as when you had the audacity to insert swear words into a few songs on "Viva Emptiness". You have such a nice voice that's easy on the ears. Hearing you sing "Hail Satan" has a lot more impact.

Jonas: "Yeah, I think so! That's a great thing to be able to use sometimes because maybe people don't expect it, especially not from my type of voice; as you said, the swear words, I think they made more impact than if it was Phil Anselmo [PANTERA] doing it. [Laughs] Maybe that's expected from him. That's a fun little card that I have up my sleeve. I use my voice in a way that it sort of brings a different kind of impact of what I'm singing about."

Blabbermouth: Why such a quick turnaround time between albums? It's been a while since KATATONIA has released albums two years apart from each other.

Jonas: "The reason this time is because I write music all the time. I remember immediately after the 'Sky Void Of Stars' touring was done, I thought that I would take a break from writing because there was no rush to do anything. I was still writing a lot of stuff. Eventually, the label asked our management, 'Do you think they could make another album?' I had the question, and I was browsing through my ideas, and I thought, 'Maybe there's enough material to actually work on an album here.' And there was. The guys in the band really wanted to do it. I felt there was probably a good set of 10, 11 songs here, so let's do it. [Laughs]"

Blabbermouth: Do you want to talk about your new guitar tandem with Nico (Elgstrand) and Sebastian (Svalland)? Sebastian is 15 years younger than you.

Jonas: "They are great. Sebastian, as you say, he's a younger fellow. He naturally comes in with a totally different energy. I think it's great for us to have someone younger coming in and kicking our ass, pretty much. [Laughs] He's different in how he sees music and how he sees stuff like live performances. It differs so much from how I see them because I grew up, like you, with the underground and the LPs and no internet. He's not coming from that place. He's saying, 'We have to step up on the live show part. We have to do this.' It's nice to have someone saying, 'I can see more potential in the band than what we're actually doing.' He's a great guitar player. He's very much into this sort of prog-metal music. Still, he grew up listening to PINK FLOYD, which is his favorite band. He has brought a lot of nice parameters to the band.

"Nico is even older than me. With that also comes a lot of knowledge and routine from doing this for a long time. He was touring with us back on the 'Sky Void Of Stars' tours. He stepped in as a session/live guitar player. He made a great impression, and I knew him from before. We always clicked, and we had a good time whenever we saw each other. That was an easy choice to make to ask him to join the band."

Blabbermouth: How were they asked to approach their solos on the new album? Did you give them free rein?

Jonas: "Since we had plenty of time to get ready for the album, I gave them the demos that I made. I mentioned where I could envision a good spot for a guitar solo. They'd just come back with ideas, and I didn't want to direct them too much since both were very skilled, but they also understood what band they'd joined. I think the risk of them coming up with something different was very small. [Laughs] Everything I received was perfect for the album and what we're doing. And that made me very happy because it means we found the right kind of people."

Blabbermouth: You did the drums in a church, which is not something you've done before.

Jonas: "Oh, it was great. The guy who did the guitars and bass, Lawrence Mackrory, had recorded there on the previous album. I was talking to him about doing the drums, and he said, 'I found this really cool place. There's a guy who has bought a church, and he's building a studio in there. The room is fantastic.' We went there, and the guy who owns the studio, Tore [Stjerna], used to have a studio here in Stockholm. He's recorded loads of black metal stuff like WATAIN and MAYHEM. Apparently, he wanted a real church, so he bought one. I think he's still building, but the studio is pretty much done. The atmosphere was great. It's located in the middle of nowhere. There were no distractions. It felt like you were spending time in a church, but you were also doing the stuff that you wanted to do. It was a bit of peace and quiet. It was easy to concentrate on the tasks we had, which were to record the drums and find the right sound. It was a great place to be in."

Blabbermouth: We're in this age where a lot of drum recordings sound the same. It's nice to hear some live, natural drums for once.

Jonas: "Yeah, I think so as well. When we sent the album off to be mixed, Adam Noble, who's in the U.K., said the drums sounded fantastic in the room and didn't think we needed things regarding the samples and the stuff people typically use these days. I was really happy to receive the mixes back, feeling like this is a super-natural sound for our era and the kind of music we play. He truly let the drums breathe into the mix. You can hear the room and its vastness. [Laughs] I'm super happy."

Blabbermouth: You have your second song in Swedish, "Efter solen". What brought it about? Would you like to do more of these songs in your native tongue?

Jonas: "I would love to, but I'm glad to hear you think it sounds natural. At first, singing in Swedish didn't feel natural to me. I've done it a few times before, but doing it again, especially on a song that would become an album track, required a lot of time figuring out how to sing in Swedish since it's not something I usually do. I'm so used to singing in English. I think in English when I write songs. Suddenly, I had to flip that around completely. The sounds, the vocal techniques, work differently, along with the syllables and all that. It was super challenging but rewarding in the end. I think the song turned out great. I'm really happy with how it sounds with the vocals."

Blabbermouth: Does hitting the 50-year mark in your life soon at all tie into the introspective approach with the album and lyrics?

Jonas: "It could be. It's not something I've been thinking about, like, 'Oh, I have to write something because I'm getting older.' [Laughs] It's something I've written about before, but the big 5-0 is coming up in just a few days [Renkse turned 50 on May 19]. Of course, it's going to leave a mark on what I write. It's a natural kind of way that things go. You want to reflect on that. I think I will do it in the lyrics whether I intend it or not. It's going to be there."

Blabbermouth: You've certainly hit upon this when you wrote "One Year From Now" on "Viva Emptiness". Do your kids help give you more perspective?

Jonas: "My wife and I have what we call a "cable kid," which, in Sweden, is when you have a kid that is much younger than the other kids. We have a six-year-old now. I think that keeps me young. You have to be on your toes again. He came along ten years after the middle kid. Initially, we thought we were done with this kid business, but apparently, we weren't. When you have another one, you get to see this whole thing again. It's inspiring. It also keeps you awake at night. [Laughs] You have to sort of adapt to that thing again. It keeps me young."