BLACKIE LAWLESS Rips CHRIS HOLMES: 'If The Guy Had Genuine Creativity, He Wouldn't Give Two Hoots About What I Do'

In a new interview with Cassius Morris, W.A.S.P. leader Blackie Lawless was asked if he has seen former W.A.S.P. guitarist Chris Holmes's documentary film "Mean Man: The Story Of Chris Holmes", written and directed by French filmmakers Antoine De Montremy and Laurent Hart. The project, which was made available on Blu-ray, DVD and VOD in January 2021, was born in 2014 after De Montremy and Hart had an opportunity to meet and direct Holmes in a music video for the Holmes-penned song "Let It Roar" in Cannes. At that time, the now-66-year-old rocker had more or less disappeared from the music scene, leaving his home in the U.S. to seek a new beginning with his wife Sarah in France.

Blackie said about "Mean Man": "I have no desire to see anything that has to do with that. First of all, you wanna base anything you're gonna do in life on truth. And you know what? It may be his truth, but your truth doesn't necessarily make it fact. Anybody can have their own truth, but that doesn't make it real. And when somebody's spewing a bunch of hate because they can't create on their own… Listen, if the guy had genuine creativity, he wouldn't give two hoots about what I do. So, that's the yardstick on how you judge those things. And if somebody's coming from a perspective where they're not telling the truth, I'm not gonna waste my time on that."

Asked if that was the reason that he didn't participate in the documentary, Blackie said: "Well, I don't recall being invited, but if I would have, I wouldn't have done it. Like I said, I've got no desire to do something… I mean, if it's based on truth, then I might have taken a look at it. But for a guy to do a tutorial for an hour, or however long it was, to sit and give just their side of the story that's not based on truth, why do I wanna be part of that?"

Blackie also once again dismissed the possibility of a reunion of W.A.S.P.'s original lineup — Lawless, Holmes, guitarist Randy Piper and drummer Tony Richards — for the upcoming tour celebrating the 40th anniversary of the release of W.A.S.P.'s first album. He said: "Allow me to be unapologetic for just a moment. The band that I have now… Mike Duda is one of the best bass players in the world. Doug Blair is one of the best lead guitar players in the world. Aquiles Priester, his drumming speaks for itself. I'm fortunate enough to be in a band with world-class musicians, the guys that are way better than me. And I look around sometimes during the show at I think to myself, 'Wow, I get to play with these guys.' And I'm being honest here — they're far better than me. So why would I wanna go back to something that would be taking a step backwards?"

Lawless continued: "I understand that the hardcore fanbase likes to romance ideas in their heads. I totally get that. But when we started doing [W.A.S.P.'s fourth studio album, 1989's] '[The] Headless [Children]', I was moving in directions that required musicianship that the original band could not do. I don't mean to be overly hard. It's just, again, these are just facts. If you want to do stuff where the degree of difficulty is up there, then you're gonna have guys that can play it and play it consistently. And then by the time 'Headless' was done and I moved into [1992's] 'The Crimson Idol', forget it. I mean, look at who played on that record. Your average run-of-the-mill musician is not gonna be able to do that. And again, I was privileged to work with guys that were world-class musicians. So if you're gonna get that level of creativity, professionalism, it's almost impossible to duplicate in an original situation. If that band grows together, then yes, you could. But if the band does not grow together, then it's never gonna happen. And it doesn't matter whether it's us or what band it is, that's gonna be the same every time."

Lawless also addressed the perception that W.A.S.P. is essentially his solo project, with hired guns helping him achieve his vision. He said: "No man's an island — no man. And I have gone to great lengths to speak out about the guys that are in this band to make sure that the world knows who they are. At no point have I ever wanted this to be just my situation.

"I grew up playing sports," he explained. "To me, team is everything. And I'm much more happy and comfortable, relaxed, it's a much more enjoyable situation in a team surrounding. So that's always been the thing that I focused on the most. What the world sees is when they look at the records, they see me as the primary songwriter. So I think that that's a lot of where they get that from. But when it comes to making those records, you see that I don't play all those instruments. I do what I do, but those other guys, they're doing their fair share of contributing to making those records what they are."

Holmes joined W.A.S.P. in 1982 and remained with the group until 1990. In 1996, the guitarist returned to W.A.S.P. and stayed with the band until 2001. Chris has not played with W.A.S.P. since.

Back in January 2021, Holmes was asked by Cassius Morris if he had approached Lawless about participating in the making of "Mean Man: The Story Of Chris Holmes". Chris said: "I didn't, but Antoine did, and he said [Blackie] didn't have the time to do it."

Explaining that his relationship with Blackie is "over" and calling Lawless a "narcissist," Chris said: "When I left [W.A.S.P. for the final time] — or I really never left. [Blackie] just got another guitar player. They never even told me [I was out]. I found out that they were doing shows [without me]. So, I was, like, 'Wow. I must be out.' He never called me. Since then, I've dug in and found out some shitty stuff, what happened to me, and he knows that I know that, and he probably will never wanna talk to me ever again."

In October 2020, Chris said that he would never consider returning to W.A.S.P. unless Lawless agreed to pay him the publishing royalties that he allegedly owes him. He told Canada's The Metal Voice: "A lot of people think I made money from W.A.S.P. I've never gotten my royalties, or even my songwriting. All the stuff that I wrote, I've never gotten paid one penny. And you know whose fault it is? It's my my fault for not knowing the business, how it is. I trusted somebody.

"After every album, when the album is done, how they split up the publishing with the publishing contracts, the publishing companies — that's where the money comes from," he continued. "I was never told about when that meeting was. Because the other guys in the band never wrote — I was the only one [other than Blackie]. So I'm the only one that they have to screw over to get all the publishing. So I was never told. Then when I dug into it in about 2006 or [2007], I went into Sanctuary Music, had a lawyer go in to find out where all my publishing is, and I was written in as a session player into all the records. And if you don't know about it, and you're not told, and you don't see, you don't know. So I trusted Blackie Lawless about that. And when I found out, it really kind of yanked me wrong. It yanks me wrong — it makes me see he was sticking a knife in my back from the first day, from the first album, and not telling me, and being my best friend."

As far as Holmes is concerned, Lawless is solely to blame for him not getting his due from the W.A.S.P. records that he was involved with.

"If it wasn't for me, he wouldn't be where he's at — I guarantee you that," Chris said. "And then he screws me like that. It's all right. It's been a long time. It's something that I will never, never get over. I'll take that to the grave with me. I'm pissed thinking about it.

"Anyway, that's the kind of person he is. Everybody thinks, 'Wow! He's got the greatest…' Yeah, he's got an outrageous voice, Blackie, yeah, but he turns his back on his bandmembers real bad — he screws 'em. I'm the only guy in the band that ever came back to get screwed twice, which I did. I came back for 'Kill.Fuck.Die', and I was promised half publishing on that album. Didn't get crap. Knowing that I couldn't get in to see what was written in the contracts, of course. That's why I wrote the song 'Two Faced Mother Fucker'. It's about him. It's on 'Shitting Bricks'. And I've got one on the new album. It's called 'The Truth'. It says, 'You can't handle the truth.' It's on my new [album]. I'm gonna write a song about him on every album."

Addressing the possibility of his return to W.A.S.P., Holmes said: "Everybody asks me about a W.A.S.P. reunion. Sure, I'd love to play a W.A.S.P. reunion — if he pays me my publishing. If it doesn't, then he can have a reunion with Randy Piper, Johnny Rod and [Steve] Riley and everybody else. I'm not gonna play it. It's not worth it.

"I came back to W.A.S.P. in '95. I got screwed again," he added. "Screw me once, screw me twice — you're not gonna screw me a third time."

During a November 2017 press conference in Moscow, Russia, Lawless was asked what he would say to those W.A.S.P. fans who continue to call for the band to reunite with Holmes. He responded: "People get divorced for certain reasons, and there's times when the kids want the parents to get back together, but sometimes it never happens. And this is one of those [times]. Sorry."

Chris Holmes image courtesy of Duke TV